Agreed. I should have two coming to me.
Can we talk about speakers for a minute?
- Thread starter willie k
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Agreed. I should have two coming to me.
Yes, looking forward to your feedbacks
Seem to be their own thing from what I’ve read. Sometimes said to be kind of “EV12L - G12-65 hybrid”, which to be honest sounds both interesting and as wide as a “JCVD split on the mirrors of 2 moving trucks” => makes me
I’m very much hoping closer to the former than the latter. I haven’t yet played a G12-65 I liked. But I’m not much of a Celestion guy in general.
Barrowsmith
Member
I don't have any cabs with G12-65's at the moment but I have found a big difference between 70's/early 80's versions with Kurt Mueller cones and modern UK versions. They pair nicely with Komets in part because they are 97db.
Mojo
Member
There were over a dozen T-numbers for the G12-65 between introduction and mid-80’s…and within those there were even more variations. I had owned a few T-models over the years - the favorite of which for me were ‘81 73054’s with Kurt Muller cones. They were well balanced and held together nicely. As I mentioned in another post, I seem to favor “American “ voiced speakers and have moved on all my Celestions, with the exception of the Alnico Cream and Copperback that came in my Audio Eyra cab.
Anje
Active member
Yes, "tone" with old vintage speakers often is a moving target. They can vary a lot, even between different examples of the same "model" in theory. And i'm talking even about having same "T number" sometimes.
That's also part of their "charm" to me, lots of variations to play with to tune your sound & overall feel.
And, 99.99% of times, no modern recent "reissue" / "replica" speaker really sounds nor feels like good originals; so if that "original" sound and feel is what you are looking for, there's often no real substitute for it.
That being said "old vintage original" is not always the perfect / best answer to everything.
I truly love old vintage amps & speakers, or gear in general; but even, I have one clear example of situation in mind where modern walked over old vintage speakers to me:
I had x2 68-69 early Silver Face Fender Deluxe Reverb amps years ago, very similar to each other, loved both. Great amps.
Only real difference between the 2: one was loaded with a recent Eminence speaker, the other still had its old nice original speaker.
The one with the Eminence was sounding & feeling so much "better" to me, like 2 different amps. The all original amp was just sounding "old" and "weaker" next to it.
That's also part of their "charm" to me, lots of variations to play with to tune your sound & overall feel.
And, 99.99% of times, no modern recent "reissue" / "replica" speaker really sounds nor feels like good originals; so if that "original" sound and feel is what you are looking for, there's often no real substitute for it.
That being said "old vintage original" is not always the perfect / best answer to everything.
I truly love old vintage amps & speakers, or gear in general; but even, I have one clear example of situation in mind where modern walked over old vintage speakers to me:
I had x2 68-69 early Silver Face Fender Deluxe Reverb amps years ago, very similar to each other, loved both. Great amps.
Only real difference between the 2: one was loaded with a recent Eminence speaker, the other still had its old nice original speaker.
The one with the Eminence was sounding & feeling so much "better" to me, like 2 different amps. The all original amp was just sounding "old" and "weaker" next to it.
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Barrowsmith
Member
I really like the Alnico Cream and Copperback combo, especially with some volume (and after a bit of playtime). I have a 2x12 vertical RAR version.
Mojo
Member
I like it quite a bit as well. I’ve put some time on it, and it seems to be coming along nicely. I appreciate the “quickness” of the Copperback - it seems to have an immediacy to it that pairs well with the Cream.
New Scholz Sugarcone came in today from the first batch of reissues. Really curious to see what it’s like.
Going to try it by itself first, then see what it’s like mixed with Celestion Cream Alnicos, EV12Ls, and Fane F70s.
Very interested in the fact that they claim the originals were, while not meant to be a clone, inspired by 70s Fanes (not sure what model exactly). So I’ll be seeing what it’s like compared to my old ones in my 70s Hiwatt cabinet. Not really fair comparison because of the big cab size difference and number of speakers, but just for a general EQ/Feel listen.
Going to try it by itself first, then see what it’s like mixed with Celestion Cream Alnicos, EV12Ls, and Fane F70s.
Very interested in the fact that they claim the originals were, while not meant to be a clone, inspired by 70s Fanes (not sure what model exactly). So I’ll be seeing what it’s like compared to my old ones in my 70s Hiwatt cabinet. Not really fair comparison because of the big cab size difference and number of speakers, but just for a general EQ/Feel listen.
Can’t wait to hear what you think of them.
Anje
Active member
Looking forward to your feedback as well; can you please remind what old Fane you have in which Hiwatt cab, for reference?
I have a 1978 4x12, which has the short lived but admired, 125161 model Fanes. They only came in Hiwatt cabs for about 6 months, was some of the last rear mounted cabs, and what Hi Tone modeled their DR-F Fane clones on.
I’ve had 3 different types of 70s Fanes-
12231 cast frame
125161 stamped frame
Crescendos
I’d rank them in that order from warmest to brightest. The cast 122231s sounded great to me overdriven, the crescendos were *amazing* for clean tones. The 125161s sort of split the difference, leaning closer to the 122231s.
I remembered that I made a little comparison between the 122231s and 125161s a few years ago. FWIW. Super simple playing, just chords ringing out to hear the speakers.
Anje
Active member
Great info and great video! Thanks for sharing; difference is well translating, especially with the overdriven sound.
I had a couple DR103 stacks from '71 & '72 years ago; cabs were SE4121 with 122141 (22w) and SE4122 with 122142 (50w).
They are my main reference for old Hiwatt & Fane sound / feel.
I found the SE4122 was pretty close to my '70 Marshall straight basketweave 4x12 with T1281 (bass cone G12H30) Celestion; may be just a bit flatter / clearer sounding.
The SE4121 with the lighter 22w Fanes were more "unique"; kind more of like a "crunchier G12H", not really G12M like at all as they were still having that flatter less compressed open Fane response.
To this day I unfortunately haven't found a clear definitive old Fane speaker info database, as we have for old Celestion.
PS: your 122231 look like a more heavy duty evolution of the earlier 122141 22w; same 14,000 gauss "flux density" smaller magner especially.
The 122142 50w I had were 17,000 gauss bigger magnet.
I had a couple DR103 stacks from '71 & '72 years ago; cabs were SE4121 with 122141 (22w) and SE4122 with 122142 (50w).
They are my main reference for old Hiwatt & Fane sound / feel.
I found the SE4122 was pretty close to my '70 Marshall straight basketweave 4x12 with T1281 (bass cone G12H30) Celestion; may be just a bit flatter / clearer sounding.
The SE4121 with the lighter 22w Fanes were more "unique"; kind more of like a "crunchier G12H", not really G12M like at all as they were still having that flatter less compressed open Fane response.
To this day I unfortunately haven't found a clear definitive old Fane speaker info database, as we have for old Celestion.
PS: your 122231 look like a more heavy duty evolution of the earlier 122141 22w; same 14,000 gauss "flux density" smaller magner especially.
The 122142 50w I had were 17,000 gauss bigger magnet.
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My Sugarcone is in, and I am digging it. I’m not sure it’s in the right cab though. I have a ported Mesa 1x12 closed back that was available without taking anything else apart. I think it needs to be in an open back cab. So far so good though. It doesn’t sound like a Celestion! It is stiff and bright, but in a really, really good way. The bottom is not flubby at all. I’ve only tried it with my reissue Constellation and it rocks! I’ll try to get a clip up, but honestly, my iPhone clips sound awful.
Ok, I tried it with my Jim Kelley Line amp. I have been loving that amp with an open back Mesa wide cab with a Celestion Alnico Cream. I did an A-B test, and much prefer the Sugarcone. Maybe it’s in the right cab after all. I don’t love these cabs though. There must be something better, but I find myself with a dearth of Mesa 1x12s. I am open to suggestions. The Sholtz is fuller sounding, while keeping tight mids and sparkling highs. Not honky or flubby. It has dethroned my previous favorite. I want to pair the cream and this in a 2x12, but I really want it to be a killer stand alone 1x12.
here's my clip(s). clean, overdrive rhythm, overdrive single note(ish). Guitar is a Fiam Tele style. This is recorded with iPhone in the room. Guitar is straight in to amp (Jim Kelley 2 channel Line).
I think the speaker for me sits sonically like a mix between an Altec 417 and an EVM 12L. Little bit softer bass response than the EV. Highs not quite as pronounced as a 417 with aluminum dust cap. Very sweet midrange. Not quite as prominent low mids as EV12L or Scumback SC75 to me.
I think the speaker for me sits sonically like a mix between an Altec 417 and an EVM 12L. Little bit softer bass response than the EV. Highs not quite as pronounced as a 417 with aluminum dust cap. Very sweet midrange. Not quite as prominent low mids as EV12L or Scumback SC75 to me.
Interestingly enough, I had installed a new Scumback BM75 in the ported Mesa cab and hated it. I dug the speaker, as there was something awesome in there, but it was being held back by the cab. Jim had recommended an open back cab when I bought that speaker, but this was what I had. I look forward to getting my cab issues sorted. It is frustrating.
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