Can we talk about speakers for a minute?

W

willie k

Member
I have a few worthy amps. Why do I keep buying them? You would think at some point the itch would be considered scratched. The sound would be found. The search would at least be closing in. What is wrong?

I think it is the speakers.

Example: LE Cobra. I received the cab loaded with G12-65s. Since I didn’t yet have the LE head, I tried others with the cab. Some troublesome amps seemed to find their voice with that cab. Soon they all started to sound the same. This won’t do.

Along comes LE Cobra combo with the Redback. What an improvement! Could it get better still?

I recall my early days. Day one for me, and a friend had a Bassman head and a couple of 2x12s with Jensens. Fat. Thunderous. Clean. Amazing. Attempting to recreate this experience from long ago, I recently purchased a 64 Bassman head. It is tinny, super trebly, and has little of what I recall. It does not seem to have “that Fender sound”. I don’t think anything is wrong with the amp. Note it is connected to an 8 ohm 2x12 with celestions of some variety. Impedance mismatch problem, or just the “wrong” speakers?


Another grail amp just sounded sterile to me using what was recommended, EVM12L. Tried it in a Theile cab. Nope. Added a second. Still not loving it. Later plugged into an Alnico cream in an open back cab and now I completely dig it. Thought I’d upgrade to a Scumback. Nope, that wasn’t it, either. That one seems to have a honky mid hump.


I feel like I am fighting these speakers. I wonder if it is just my ears failing. It’s like I need a GEQ to dial in what I don’t hear, or dial out what I do hear. Who does that? Should I keep trying different speakers? Should I just use what everyone says and accept my limitations? Is the problem my heavy right hand?

There are so many speakers and cabs to try. I have resisted this rabbit hole, but at this point I don’t quite know what to do. I like the idea of having a killer cab that does it all, I just don’t own such a cab.

Sorry for the rambling post. Believe me, I could go on, but I think this gets my point out.
 
Great topic.
From my experience, I've thought for a long time that speakers, along with related cab details they are mounted into, probably are one of the most important & impactful single components of any "rig".

I "discovered" / "realized" that point In my early years of old classic "vintage" amp quest, when I was looking deep into getting the kind of sound I was hearing on all those recordings from my favorite players. I was not really "there" until I got a good old cab with the "right" original speakers. I also found it is as much a matter of "feel" when playing, as of "sound" only.
After having owned/played a fair amount of those old cabs, swapping them and their speakers around, with multiple amps, I truly think that it is at least as much a "speaker&cab" sound than an "amp" sound, when people refer to their favorite "xxx" or "yyy" reference tones.
As an example, I still clearly remember the first time I plugged my 60's Vox AC30 head into one of my 60's Marshall 4x12; that sounded, and felt, MUCH closer to my "late 60's Marshall 50w sound" than I could have ever imagined (especially a '67 JTM50 I was using a lot at the time).
I also remember having kind of "ruined/lost" the particular great sound & feel of some cabs, by moving their speakers to some other cabs I thought would be "better"; so it's really speakers+cab related, they are working together as a whole.

That's one of the reasons why I've liked to have walls of cabs, there are so many possible variations/options and are so impactful.
One other reason is that is just looks cool :)
Also, unfortunately, I've found most old classic original "reference" speakers (as long as they are in good working condition) are rarely matched by new reissue / "inspired by" speakers.

willie k said:
I like the idea of having a killer cab that does it all, I just don’t own such a cab.
Click to expand...
It would depend on your expectations in the "all", but unfortunately, per the above there are so many very different & impactful flavors in speakers/cabs, that it's a challenging moving target if you are looking for covering quite different sounds/feels (especially if based on different amp "types"/characters).
I have long abandoned that idea myself.
 
Great thread. I am a man of limited ears. I have to say that generally Celestion speakers have not been my thing (except the Fullback and Cream Alnico). Just has a rasp and a harshness that I don’t love.

I am highly partial to EV speakers - especially the 12L and SRO. There is a warmth to those speakers that just speaks to me. The Altec 417, 418, and JBL E120 and K120 are wonderful as well.
 
Yes, in some way classic Celestion is a lot about "biting presence & air" and was a big part in sculpting a lot of those classic 60's/70's rock sounds. Old good original speakers are kind of magic in the way they still manage to balance that with warmth and the right amount of compression at proper volume.
If you're looking for "warmer/rounder" in classic Celestion world, I would advise to try old higher wattage like G12-65 or G12-80; G12H-100 are more "scooped/flat" and make for great cleans as well; G12K-85 also in different flavor.
Yet they are no EV or JBL for sure; very different speaker characters in those 3 major brands.
 
The combination of speaker(s) and cab are crucial, IMHE. And, yes, they can be a rabbit hole! They are the last component and “voice” of your live signal chain. I’ve yet to find a universal cab/speaker pairing that brings the best out of whatever is before it. Some amps sound great through cab/speaker “A”, while other amps are OK, or less. Same can be said for cab/speaker “B”, but it’s not necessarily the same amps that sound great. I tend to gravitate toward EV’s and similarly-voiced speakers most of the time - they’re what my ears seem to understand as a reference point. Also, I think @Anje is right… don’t take (for example) your ‘69 1960B G12M’s and try to throw them into an OS Bogner cab and expect it to be better.
 
Speakers are such an important piece of the puzzle.

I’m also a big EV12L and SRO fan.

I want so badly to love Celestions, but the only ones I end up keeping are Cream Alnicos. Love the sound other people get with greenbacks, etc.

For a new ceramic magnet speaker, I really like the Fane F70 (especially with my Hiwatt, obviously).
 
Newer Fane are speakers I've never had the occasion to try, I've been curious about them and would love to test some.
Old originals with early 70's Hiwatt & Sound City are among the legendary classics to me. They are another flavor / character option besides the Celestion, EV, JBL; definitely more on the flatter / balanced EQ side VS Celestion.
 
Anje said:
Newer Fane are speakers I've never had the occasion to try, I've been curious about them and would love to test some.
Old originals with early 70's Hiwatt & Sound City are among the legendary classics to me. They are another flavor / character option besides the Celestion, EV, JBL; definitely more on the flatter / balanced EQ side VS Celestion.
Click to expand...

I’ve had original Fane Crescendos, cast frame 123231 purple labels, and still have the rare stamped frame 125161 models in my 412. I like the new F70s just as much as the old ones.
 
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It hasn't been mentioned yet, but I haven't played an amp through a Jim Kelley 1x12 with an old EV 12S that didn't absolutely kill. I've tried everything from Lines to Marshalls, Komets, Fenders, Bruno's, RAR's, LE's... It just seems to get a much smoother driven tone with any amp I've tried. It just looks funny to put any head on it other than a Line because it's pretty compact.
 
I remember having a EVM 12S years ago, didn’t keep it for long at the time and I can’t really remember why right now to be honest (probably was a decision to fund something else more important at the time).
Always thought I would need to revisit this speaker one of these days.
 
I've definitely preferred it to the 12L (or even the SRO) for overdrive tones. I've never tried it in a 2x12 or 4x12 array though which seems like would be a very fun thing to try.
 
Interesting. I have a couple of 12L’s, and can’t say I love them. Can’t truthfully say I even like them. I’ve only tried them in Theile cabs. That setup has no life to me. I now use an Alnico cream in an open back cab and love it.(same amp) I am trying to find a second cab that matches, or maybe go for a 2x12. Considering the 12s, and possibly an Altec 417. I have my eye on a ‘50s SRO, but remain skeptical regarding older speakers.
 
Man, the speaker rabbit hole! I've had and gigged since the 70's with so many different cab/speakers. It wasn't until 20-25 years ago I realized just how important the speaker was to the amp's tone. I probably would have kept some great amps if I only would have found the speaker that "I" liked with the amp.

Good luck! I've found that each amp needs to be dialed in with the right speaker. Kind of like an espresso bean grinder needs to be dialed in each time you change beans. It's a crazy exercise but once you find that combination it's magic. Get a new amp, it starts all over again unless you're really lucky.

First post here!! Woo hoo!
 
I’ve been down the route a little bit. Without going to detail my favorite combination to date is Scumback H55+ BM75 in a Soldano closed 2x12. It’s a bit scooped with wonderful upper end and harmonics. Note I’m a predominantly a ‘hair 80s’ metal player , but delving into blues and pop playing.
 
I was about to ask this very question re pairing a 55 hz speaker with a 75 hz. I know what hz is, but I am not familiar with this distinction in speakers. Looking at an oval back Avitar 2x12, do I need one of each? Current stash of loose speakers includes a Scumback BM75 100 watt, G12H 75, Vintage 30, EV12L, C90. The cab now has a pair of the G12H75s and sounds really good, but I know it could be a better. I am anxious to hear everyone’s thoughts on this pressing issue.
 
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