This is great information. Just what I needed. Thanks! Now maybe I need M magnets to shave off a couple of db. Always something!I have a Scumback H55 x BM75 closed back which I love!
Read this :
Scumback Speakers: Frequently Asked Questions
www.scumbackspeakers.com
Can we talk about speakers for a minute?
- Thread starter willie k
- Start date
It'd be really interesting to hear the BM75 and EV paired!
Anje
Active member
What do you feel the current cab with the pair of G12H 75 is "missing"? What would you like to hear/feel differently?
Btw, are those the modern "anniversary" G12H?
For what it worth on this topic: years ago I tried to mix a 2x12 (Std Port City horizontal cab, I had equipped with old original lead cone '68 G12M 25w) with different 80's / early 90's Boogie 1x12s that had old EV 12 speakers: I remember not being a fan of that combo at the time, as I felt the EVs were very quickly overpowering the old Celestion to the point you would loose the particular "feel & tone" of those too much, and that was not really making sense to me anymore to use those rare old speakers in this case. I swapped the EV 1x12s with old V30 equipped 1x12s, much better blend&match to me.
Anje
Active member
@willie k , if you have a photo of the G12H speakers that could help confirm which model they are exactly. There have been a few different modern "reissue" of those, with quite different tone & feel between them in my experience.
About the bass VS lead cones on classic Celestion: in my experience bass cones come with extended lower frequencies and tighter bottom end at the same time, feels like kind of a shift of the overall spectrum towards bass and slightly "flatter", "duller"/"darker"/"rounder" & "cleaner" sounding than the lead cones (when comparing 2 of the same speaker types of course; ie; x2 G12H, or x2 G12M etc.).
IMHO mixing different speakers with one amp is not always a magic trick, especially if mixing in one same cab; quite the opposite to me, it can quickly become "complicated" to manage. I usually prefer to have one cab = one type of speaker; then it's great to have several different cabs and match speakers to each cab for what sounds/feels best and be able to have different flavors for different amps.
That being said, it's still great to experiment to get your own experience & assessment of how speakers/cabs affect sound & feel to you, and what works best for you with your amps and overall gear/conditions.
About the bass VS lead cones on classic Celestion: in my experience bass cones come with extended lower frequencies and tighter bottom end at the same time, feels like kind of a shift of the overall spectrum towards bass and slightly "flatter", "duller"/"darker"/"rounder" & "cleaner" sounding than the lead cones (when comparing 2 of the same speaker types of course; ie; x2 G12H, or x2 G12M etc.).
IMHO mixing different speakers with one amp is not always a magic trick, especially if mixing in one same cab; quite the opposite to me, it can quickly become "complicated" to manage. I usually prefer to have one cab = one type of speaker; then it's great to have several different cabs and match speakers to each cab for what sounds/feels best and be able to have different flavors for different amps.
That being said, it's still great to experiment to get your own experience & assessment of how speakers/cabs affect sound & feel to you, and what works best for you with your amps and overall gear/conditions.
I bought a mint Carr Telstar hoping for a grab and go amp for smaller gigs, etc. I got the amp and plugged it in. After 5 minutes I went to my Mac put a FS ad on TGP. The amp was dark and lifeless, no sparkle or airy highs. Seriously a dull amp.
The next day I was messing around in my guitar room and unplugged the combo speaker (Carr Viceroy) and plugged the Telstar into my gigging cab with a WGS Retro 30. I love that speaker and use it with my Connie at gigs.
Anyway, what a difference!! The amp became completely different. The sparkle and high end were all there, the muddy low mids were gone, the amp sounded more musical and the clarity was great. Even the sustain and punch were much better. I ordered another Retro 30 for it which I installed yesterday. Speakers really matter, which we all know, but I've never heard such a difference. Now the amp is perfect for what I bought it for. Only downside, it added a couple more pounds.
The next day I was messing around in my guitar room and unplugged the combo speaker (Carr Viceroy) and plugged the Telstar into my gigging cab with a WGS Retro 30. I love that speaker and use it with my Connie at gigs.
Anyway, what a difference!! The amp became completely different. The sparkle and high end were all there, the muddy low mids were gone, the amp sounded more musical and the clarity was great. Even the sustain and punch were much better. I ordered another Retro 30 for it which I installed yesterday. Speakers really matter, which we all know, but I've never heard such a difference. Now the amp is perfect for what I bought it for. Only downside, it added a couple more pounds.
Well now, on that, we take it to another level. When it comes down to it, I have one sound in my head that I have been chasing. I have bought amps and more amps seeking the magic.
Wifey bought me a Louis Electric Cobra for Christmas a couple of years ago. (I was a very good boy that year). The cab arrived first. I was compelled to try my other heads, jut to hear it make some noise. This is where the trouble starts.
That cab, an oval back 2x12 with a pair of g12somethings sounded fantastic! Amps that should have sounded great but didn’t suddenly sounded great. It devoured every head I threw at it. I was able to closely nail the “sound in my head” at last with a couple of different heads.
Could it have been the speakers the whole time? I’m thinking there may be more secret sauce in the speakers than I had previously considered.
Is the speaker the core of the tone? There’s more than that. I have a cab that I love with my new Connie, but I can’t say I like it much with a Bruno Super 100 (Another oval back 2x12) Perhaps I need more time with the Bruno, but the Komet was love at first power chord.
I sold a grail amp I had been chasing, only to discover I had been using the wrong speakers. It had too many knobs anyway.
I have severe tinnitus, so therefore limitations, but I can still tell what sounds good to me. I’m starting to think the sound in my head comes basically from the speaker. The level of amp seems to provide diminishing returns as you go for the final 1-2% of tone. Sort of like building a performance car. You can get a lot for a little, but a little more cost a lot. Bad analogy?
It was so easy when the amp came with a speaker. What you had was what you had. Now it seems a different speaker can transform an amp.
I can’t imagine needing better gear than I have been fortunate to acquire. It has to be the speakers (or my ears) at this point. I think I’m getting to a point that I am happy, but then there are dozens of speaker options out there, many of which must be similar. The trick is pairing the right amp with the right speaker.
If you made it this far, I apologize for the incoherent rambling stream of consciousness.
Wifey bought me a Louis Electric Cobra for Christmas a couple of years ago. (I was a very good boy that year). The cab arrived first. I was compelled to try my other heads, jut to hear it make some noise. This is where the trouble starts.
That cab, an oval back 2x12 with a pair of g12somethings sounded fantastic! Amps that should have sounded great but didn’t suddenly sounded great. It devoured every head I threw at it. I was able to closely nail the “sound in my head” at last with a couple of different heads.
Could it have been the speakers the whole time? I’m thinking there may be more secret sauce in the speakers than I had previously considered.
Is the speaker the core of the tone? There’s more than that. I have a cab that I love with my new Connie, but I can’t say I like it much with a Bruno Super 100 (Another oval back 2x12) Perhaps I need more time with the Bruno, but the Komet was love at first power chord.
I sold a grail amp I had been chasing, only to discover I had been using the wrong speakers. It had too many knobs anyway.
I have severe tinnitus, so therefore limitations, but I can still tell what sounds good to me. I’m starting to think the sound in my head comes basically from the speaker. The level of amp seems to provide diminishing returns as you go for the final 1-2% of tone. Sort of like building a performance car. You can get a lot for a little, but a little more cost a lot. Bad analogy?
It was so easy when the amp came with a speaker. What you had was what you had. Now it seems a different speaker can transform an amp.
I can’t imagine needing better gear than I have been fortunate to acquire. It has to be the speakers (or my ears) at this point. I think I’m getting to a point that I am happy, but then there are dozens of speaker options out there, many of which must be similar. The trick is pairing the right amp with the right speaker.
If you made it this far, I apologize for the incoherent rambling stream of consciousness.
Anje
Active member
Pretty good high level analogy to me, makes sense yes; I have to confess I do love motorsports, especially classics (do we see a trend there?), so that speaks to me.
I'm sure one could think of similar phenomenon in lots of hobbies/passions/domains of interest, whether those involve "technics", technology, or just endless pursuit of improvement. "Perfection", or simply "better", is often an asymptote, trying to reach it never quite ends.
I would just ad that in this particular "personal quest" for "the tone in our head", there is no real absolute "better" in ways/tools to reach it IMHO; and amps are no different in that VS guitars, or whatever other part of the "rig".
Once you reach a point, it's much more about "different", "flavors" etc. VS one particular taste, environment, contraints, history of learning/playing...
That is for sure one of the key "tricks" you learn with experience, in that endless "quest".
One of the keys to help progressing in that quest is about having strong stable references to me, so that you have "starting points" to go from; Once you find something you like a lot, that "feels special", you can use that to find tune thinking about which particular fine detail you want to adjust and in which direction.
And I feel that when you think you found an amp+cab/speaker combination you feel like being 98% there, it may be time to go back to adjusting something else and leave those alone (to relate to the fact speaker/cab changes can quickly have such major impact).
Who's getting the Sugar cone reissues? I can't wait to hear what these sound like. The online clips to me of the new speakers haven't wowed me, but the people I trust have said these speakers are elite.
Mojo
Member
I haven’t pulled the trigger on them… yet. I had owned a couple OG’s years ago, and for one reason or another I wasn’t completely enamored with them. I kept them around, trying to find the right application for me, but never quite got there. So, I sold them on Reverb… strangely enough to Harry Joyce Amps about 4 years ago. I suspect they might have been used for reverse engineering for the reissues? My musical direction has changed some since then and while I’m quite happy with the speakers I have in my arsenal, I may be tempted to check them out again. Will look forward to impressions from you and others who got in on the first run.
That’s incredible. What did you find unappealing about them at the time?
Scholz Sugarcone
Mojo
Member
To be honest, my recall is a bit foggy now on the particulars… haha…. It wasn’t that they didn’t sound good, it was more so that I had other speakers that worked better for me. My ears seem to favor American vs British speakers in most (but not all) cases - EV, Altec, etc. I was into channel switching amps at the time whereas now, I am firmly in the land of single channel. So, it might be time to re-evaluate the Scholz?
COOL! You can be the official tester!
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